Wednesday, July 28, 2010
IS THE ORDINATION OF WOMEN EQUAL TO THE GREVIOUS CRIMES OF PEDOPHILE PRIESTS ?..........
On July 15, The Vatican promulgated a document addressing Pedophile Priests and Women's Ordination. This document revises Catholic Church policy, making it easier to discipline sexually abusive pedophile priests legally; but also lists the Ordination of Women to the Priesthood, as a grevious crime against the Sacraments, along with pedophilia, heresy, apostasy, and schism. In my view that is a serious misjudgment on the part of the Vatican in enunciating the Church's teachings. It is clear to date, that through the centuries to the present, the practice and policy of the Catholic Church is not to allow Women's Ordination. And any change in that teaching will continue to slow, or prevent the ordination of women to the Priesthood of Jesus Christ, well into the future,with permanace. But to place the attempt or advocacy for it, on par with the gravity of priests sexual abuse of children, contrary or false teachings about Christianity, the renunciation of Faith and God, or causing the dividing and splintering of the Church founded by Jesus, is a serious injustice and incredulous indictment of women. From the Blessed Virgin Mary to Mary Magdalene, Martha, whose feast we celebrate tomorrow, Catherine Siena, Teresa of Avila, Therese of the Child Jesus, Elizabeth Ann Seton, Edith Stein, Frances Cabrini, to Mother Teresa of Calcutta, among so many other women, including the millions of loyal and faithful women Religious, who have served Christ's Church through the ages and today, women are a mainstay of the Catholic-Christian Church. And those specific women do not also include, the countless women in every parish in the world, the Catholic Church would be less than half its total membership of, were it not for the presence and participation of women. Therefore, any comparison of the possibility of ordaining women priests, with the other grave offenses against God, humankind, and the Church, such as pedophile, celibate, male, priests, is both a dis-service and dishonorable offense against women and the Gospel values Jesus teaches. In this blog column I am neither endorsing or opposing, the Ordination of Women. Rather, I am advocating for a fair, honest, objective, consideration by Catholicism of what the Church teaches and why, and to be open to dialogue instead of diatribe, in pronouncing the official position of the Church, instead of awkwardly and unfairly, bunching women's ordination with these other undeniable wrongs,- and in regards to pedophilia, crimes. In my eighteen years of ecumenical endeavors, I have worked and worshipped with three or more, women pastors of other Christian churches. They are capable and conscientious servants and very effective leaders of their congregations and communities. Because they are women priests and pastors, are they criminals ? Common sense says they are not, so neither should we, the Catholic Church attempt to equate the ordination of women priests with grevious crimes against the Sacraments.........."May The Grace And Peace Of God Our Father, The Love Of Our Lord Jesus Christ, And The Fellowship Of The Holy Spirit Be With You All"..........Fr. Troy
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8 comments:
Hello Fr. Troy,
The opinion you posted seems to be at odds with PBXVI who approved the revised norms; the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith who prepared them; and the USCCB who welcomed the clarification (below). I would appreciate if you would please explain how you reconcile your opinion with the teaching of the magisterium.
U.S. Bishops’ Doctrine Chairman Welcomes Vatican Clarification On Ordination, Praises The Work Of Women In The Church
Excerpt:
"The seven sacraments are an integral and identifying part of the Catholic Church and the faith life of each Catholic. To feign any sacrament would be egregious. The Catholic Church through its long and constant teaching holds that ordination has been, from the beginning, reserved to men, a fact which cannot be changed despite changing times."
After going back and rereading the revised norms and the USCCB statement I am at a loss to understand your response. In no way are these revisions an afront to women. The Catholic Church is the greatest defender of the dignity of women.
I ask you to please reconsider your opinion because it is scandalous to the faithful to read or hear a Catholic priest state that there is any possibility that women could be ordained.
As a new Catholic, even I understand the "setup" of the Church as being likened to a spousal relationship, I e, the bride of Christ being the mystical body of the Church, and the necessary MALE gender priest. No other way. It disappoints me to see those in entrusted positions of leadership "lead" UNinformed parishioners erroneously in this way, based on a MISinformed conscience, as the case may be. Regardless of what we think or would LIKE for things to be, indeed magisterial Church teaching and certainly those things already declared infallible trumps our opinions. This organization is not a democracy. We don't "vote" on policy and teaching principles. And BTW, ordaining women IS every bit a blashpheme of the Sacrament of Holy Orders and as far as it goes, is rig up there with using the chalice and paten for cookies and milk.
ADOREMUS, I REITERATE THAT I AM NOT ENDORSING, OPPOSING, FAVORING, OR ADVOCATING, FOR THE ORDINATION OF WOMEN PRIESTS, BUT THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'S PROHIBITION NOT BE BUNCHED WITH PEDOPHILIA AND OTHER GREVIOUS CRIMES OR OFFENSES AGAINST THE SACRAMENTS. I CONSIDER THAT AN INDIGNITY TO WOMEN. PLEASE DO NOT, TWIST, OR MISREPRESENT, MY BLOG COLUMN. THANK YOU FOR READING AND COMMENTING. PLEASE INCLUDE YOUR NAME IN FUTURE RESPONSES AND ACCEPT FULL OWNERSHIP FOR YOUR COMMENTS.....fr.tdp
ANONYMOUS, I AM NOT LEADING UNINFORMED CATHOLIC-CHRISTIANS ERRONEOUSLY , FOR I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR ORDAINING WOMEN PRIESTS, BUT TAKING OBJECTION TO BUNCHING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'S PROHIBITION TO THE ORDINATION OF WOMEN, WITH PEDOPHILIA AND OTHER
GREVIOUS CRIMES AND OFFENSES AGAINST THE SACRAMENTS. BEWARE OF BROADLY REFERRING TO, INFALLIBILITY, AS THE ONLY INFALLIBLE TEACHING ANY POPE HAS DECLARED IN THE 140 YEARS SINCE IT WAS DECREED AT THE FIRST VATICAN COUNCIL, IN 1870-71, IS THE DOGMA OF THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY, DECLARED BY POPE PIUS XII, ON AUGUST 15, 1950. THANKS FOR COMMENTING ON, AND READING MY BLOG. PLEASE HEREAFTER, USE YOUR NAME AND ACCEPT FULL OWNERSHIP FOR YOUR COMMENTS.....fr.troy
Hello Fr. Troy,
I asked how you reconcile your opinion with the magisterium but your response did not address my inquiry. I was careful not to twist or misrepresent your words. You stated:
"It is clear to date, that through the centuries to the present, the practice and policy of the Catholic Church is not to allow Women's Ordination. And any change in that teaching will continue to slow, or prevent the ordination of women to the Priesthood of Jesus Christ, well into the future."
You have repeatedly stated that you do not oppose the "[attempted] ordination of women" and made it clear that the Catholic Church should be "open to dialogue" on the subject.
I was therefore asking -- and continue to ask -- how you reconcile what you have stated with the Teaching of the Magisterium below:
VI. WHO CAN RECEIVE THIS SACRAMENT?
CCC 1577 "Only a baptized man (vir) validly receives sacred ordination." The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry. The college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ's return. The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible.
Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, John Paul II, 22 May 1994 - Apostolic Letter
Excerpt:
"4. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church's judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.
Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful."
As the anonymous poster correctly pointed out the Catholic Church infallibly teaches that women cannot be ordained. The poster was not "broadly referring to, infallibility" the poster was rightly referring to the infallibility of the Ordinary Magisterium as then Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict, confirmed below:
(second post to follow)
CONCERNING THE TEACHING CONTAINED IN ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS RESPONSUM AD DUBIUM
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
October 28, 1995
Dubium: Whether the teaching that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, which is presented in the Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis to be held definitively, is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith.
Responsum: In the affirmative.
This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.
The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, approved this Reply, adopted in the ordinary session of this Congregation, and ordered it to be published.
Rome, from the offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on the Feast of the Apostles SS. Simon and Jude, October 28, 1995.
Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Prefect
Tarcisio Bertone
Archbishop Emeritus of Vercelli
Fr. Troy, I commented on your blog because I simply wanted to know your position, as a Catholic priest, whether you acknowledge the fact that women cannot be ordained is an unchangeable doctrine of the Catholic Church. I ask because of the implication in your post that the matter should be open for discussion or "dialogue." If I have twisted, misrepresented or misunderstood any of your statements please respond by showing what I have incorrectly understood and what you actually meant.
It also struck me that you perceive the clarification of the grave crime against the Sacrament of Holy Orders as an afront to women. None of the women named in your post (the Blessed Virgin Mary to Mary Magdalene, Martha, whose feast we celebrate tomorrow, Catherine Sienna, Teresa of Avila, Therese of the Child Jesus, Elizabeth Ann Seton, Edith Stein, Frances Cabrini, to Mother Teresa of Calcutta) would in anyway advocate a position contrary to or be offended by the Teaching of the Catholic Church. Mockery of the Sacraments is an egregious offense punishable under canon law, whether it be women's ordination or any divisive, heretical idea. The only people who would be offended by the Church's position would be those who do not accept the authority of the Magisterium. The Catholic Church is the greatest defender of the diginity of women.
On a separate note, it is common practice for a commenter on a blog to have a user name that is not his actual name. I will comply with your request and provide my name, but some people may not be comfortable doing so and I hope they still feel welcome to comment on your blog.
Our highest priority should be to proclaim the Truth in Charity and sometimes it is better done in anonymity.
Kudos Archbishop. My sentiments exactly. I am a very recent convert who, upon contemplating my conversion, was witnessing true reform throughout the Church, and was wildly impressed by same. This fueled my interest in converting. Had it been a situation of "everyone to his/her own thing," so to speak, my response would have been entirely different. I can see the newly sprouting brother/sister communities literally growing by leaps and bounds because, like the current seminarians, they are fervent for true orthodoxy, and no monkey business his gives me hope for the future of our Church. I could go on for days but suffice it to say, especially the new people want the Truth as it is, not a watered down version or any facsimile thereof. We came into this church for just that-the truth and will settle for nothing less. Keep up the good work.
God created us equal but not the same. I look upon the example of our Blessed Mother the perfect created example of Christian love and charity..I would think that if Christ had warned a woman to be ordained He had plenty of good women around Him but he chose not to and there were women present at the Last Supper. I don't feel that I am any less just because I can never be a priest..on the same note men cannot give birth to a child nor would they know the awe or miracle of life growing within us. I could not imagine going to confession to another woman..we are different by nature and it just would not work. I too have seen women pastors and while they may be great effective leaders there is something very unnatural seeing them in their sanctuary like a bride and a bride and not the Spouse and the Bride. I find it hard to look at a woman pastor and think of them..in oersona Cristi
Christ is a man walked on the earth and is walking as a man.
Blessings Teresa
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